基姆戈頓希望美國總統讀一讀朋克歷史

The musician and author of the memoir “Girl in a Band” is a fan of Joan Didion: “How cool is it that Céline chose her for their new ad campaign? I want those sunglasses.”

樂手、回憶錄《樂隊中的女孩》(Girl in a Band)的作者基姆·戈頓(Kim Gordon)喜歡瓊·迪迪安(Joan Didion)：“賽琳(Céline)選她來做新的廣告宣傳真是太酷了，我想買那些太陽鏡。”

What books are currently on your night stand?

你的牀頭櫃上現在正放着什麼書？

“The Argonauts,” by Maggie Nelson, and “Becoming Westerly,” by Jamie Brisick. Jamie’s book is a biography of a famous Australian surfer who’s transgender, man to woman, and still surfs. Jamie is shooting a documentary on her now. I also have Jo Nesbo’s latest, “Police.” I’ve read all the others in the series. I’m learning about Norway’s relationship with the Nazis and a lot of other things about that country. I like the protagonist, Harry Hole; it’s a ridiculous name, but it works. He’s grizzled, alcoholic, surrounded by a lot of corruption, so he’s working against the police and trying to find the serial killer at the same time.

麥琪·尼爾遜(Maggie Nelson)的《阿爾戈英雄》(The Argonauts)，以及傑米·布里希克(Jamie Brisick)的《成爲韋斯特利》(Becoming Westerly)。傑米的書是爲一個著名跨性別澳大利亞衝浪運動員寫的傳記，她從男人成爲女人，傑米現在正在給她拍紀錄片。我還有約·奈斯博(Jo Nesbo)最新的著作《警察》(Police)，這個系列的其他書我都讀過，從中瞭解到挪威和納粹的關係，以及很多關於這個國家的事情。我喜歡書裏的主人公哈利·霍爾(Harry Hole)，這是個可笑的名字，但是很有作用。他頭髮花白，酗酒，身邊有很多腐敗現象，於是他努力反對警察，與此同時還要努力找出連環殺手。

Who is your favorite novelist of all time? Your favorite novel?

你一直以來最喜歡的小說家是哪一位？最喜歡的小說呢？

I don’t have a favorite, but I like the way Jonathan Lethem writes about music, and in one of his books he has an amazing description of a band practicing. Mary Gaitskill is another one. She introduced modern female sexuality into contemporary literature. I also love Henry James and Gustave Flaubert, who wrote the first feminist novel in “Madame Bovary.” I love that period of literature; it’s like hyper-elegant gossip. I like James’s mysterious and detailed writing, and how he’s not afraid of taboo subjects. Of course I’ve always liked Philip K. Dick.

我沒有最喜歡的小說家，不過我喜歡喬納森·勒瑟姆(Jonathan Lethem)寫音樂的方式，他有一本書裏精彩地描寫了樂隊的事情。瑪麗·蓋茨基爾(Mary Gaitskill)也是一位。她把現代女性的性生活引入了當代文學。我也喜歡亨利·詹姆斯(Henry James)和居斯塔夫·福樓拜(Gustave Flaubert)，《包法利夫人》(Madame Bovary)是第一部女性主義小說。我喜歡那段時期的文學，就像興奮而優美的閒談。還有詹姆斯神祕而充滿細節的寫作，他不害怕觸碰禁忌題材。當然我也一直都喜歡菲利普·K·迪克(Philip K. Dick)。

Whom do you consider the best writers — novelists, songwriters, journalists, poets — working today?

你覺得當今最好的作家是誰——小說家、詞曲作者、記者，詩人都算。

For poetry, Ariana Reines and Elaine Kahn. They’re both risk takers. For music, I like Stephen Malkmus, and also Sibylle Baier. I really love Baier’s sweetly melancholy melodies. She wrote one record, and it’s stunningly beautiful. Hilton Als is so intuitive — he writes from the heart and the head at the same time. I’m a recent convert to Joan Didion, whom I’ve been meaning to read for years and finally got around to. She’s a woman writing in a man’s world, but her voice isn’t girlish, but it’s not a man’s either. How cool is it that Céline chose her for their new ad campaign? I want those sunglasses.

在詩歌方面是亞麗安娜·萊尼斯(Ariana Reines)和伊萊娜·卡恩(Elaine Kahn)。兩人都是冒險者。在音樂方面，我喜歡史蒂芬·馬爾科馬斯(Stephen Malkmus)，還有西比爾·貝爾(Sibylle Baier)。我喜歡貝爾甜美憂傷的旋律。她創作了一張唱片，非常美。希爾頓·埃爾斯(Hilton Als)的直覺很好，他的寫作發自內心，也很有頭腦。最近我迷上了瓊·迪迪安，好多年來我一直都想讀她寫的東西，最後終於有空了。她是一個在男性世界中寫作的女人，但她的聲音既不女孩子氣，也不像男人。賽琳(Céline)選她來做新的廣告宣傳真是太酷了，我想買那些太陽鏡。”

What’s the best book about music you’ve ever read? About art or design?

你讀過的最好的關於音樂的書是什麼，關於藝術或設計的書呢？

“I’m With the Band,” by Pamela Des Barres. Why is that the best book? Because it is. Also, “Mystery Train,” by Greil Marcus was very inspirational to me, and so was “Jack Goldstein and the CalArts Mafia,” which described a crazy time in the art world in the 1980s where everyone felt weirded out by their success. I felt like such an outsider myself back then, but it turns out it was an angst-ridden time for everyone. I also love John Kelsey’s art writing — he’s one of the smartest people I know in the art world.

帕米拉·德斯·巴里斯(Pamela Des Barres)的《我和樂隊在一起》(I’m With the Band)，爲什麼覺得它是最好的書呢，因爲它就是。另外，格雷爾·馬庫斯(Greil Marcus)的《神祕列車》(Mystery Train)也很有啓發，還有《傑克·戈德斯坦與加州藝術學院幫派》(Jack Goldstein and the CalArts Mafia)，它描寫20世紀80年代藝術界一個瘋狂的時刻，所有人都對他們的成功感到奇怪。當時我覺得自己是個局外人，但最後那段時間變成一個對於每個人來說都充滿焦慮的時刻。我也喜歡約翰·凱爾塞(John Kelsey)的藝術寫作，他是藝術界我認識的最聰明的人之一。

What genres do you especially enjoy reading? And which do you avoid?

你喜歡讀什麼類型小說呢，你不會讀什麼書呢？

I enjoy crime and mystery; there’s something so filmic about the writing. There’s no character as good or as innovative as Lisbeth Salander in the Stieg Larsson series, but I keep looking. I avoid books on mathematics.

我喜歡犯罪小說和神祕小說；書裏有種電影般的感覺。莉斯·莎蘭德(Lisbeth Salander)的斯蒂格·蘭森(Stieg Larsson)系列裏的人物最精彩，最有新意，不過我還在繼續看。我從來不讀和數學有關的書。

What books might we be surprised to find on your shelves?

我們會在你的書架上驚奇地找到什麼書呢？

I have a Martha Stewart book from the ’70s where she’s posing on the cover with a bunch of hunky construction workers. I think I still have a book called “Yes, Your Teen Is Crazy!” that I must have bought at one point.

我有一本瑪莎·斯圖爾特(Martha Stewart)70年代寫的書，封面上是她和一堆匈牙利建築工人。我想那本書可能叫《對，你的青春很瘋狂！》(Yes, Your Teen Is Crazy!)，肯定是我什麼時候買下來的。

Who’s your favorite literary heroine?

你最喜歡的小說女主人公是？

Chris Kraus’s “I Love Dick” and Cayce Pollard in “Pattern Recognition,” by William Gibson. Cayce is known as a “coolhunter,” and she’s described in the book as being allergic to fashion. I can maybe relate to both those things. As a visual person I’m interested in the engine of fashion and ad copy, and I like clothes — but I’m not really a part of it. You didn’t ask me who my favorite made-up hero is. Tim Riggins, the fullback for the Dillon Panthers.

威廉·吉布森(William Gibson)的《模式識別》(Pattern Recognition)裏的克里斯·克勞斯(Chris Kraus)和凱西·波蘭德(Cayce Pollard)。凱西是個“冷酷獵手”，書裏說她極度討厭時尚。這兩樣我也沾邊。作爲一個喜歡視覺的人，我對時尚機制和廣告業感興趣，我也喜歡衣服——但我並不是它的一部分。你還沒問我最喜歡的虛構男主人公是誰。是蒂姆·羅金斯(Tim Riggins)，迪里昂黑豹隊裏的後衛（來自電影Friday Night Lights——譯註）。

If you could live inside the world of any work of fiction, which would it be and why?

如果你能生活在小說裏的世界，會是哪一部小說呢，爲什麼？

“Dissident Gardens,” by Jonathan Lethem. It covers 80 years in New York, and so many different scenes. I hadn’t really known about Sunnyside Gardens as a planned retirement community, and also a Communist stronghold.

喬納森·勒瑟姆的《異見花園》(Dissident Gardens)，它涵蓋了紐約的80年，描寫了許多場景。我從來不知道陽光花園被規劃爲退休者社區，也是一個共產主義者們的據點。

What kind of reader were you as a child? Your favorite books and authors?

你小時候喜歡讀什麼書？那時候最喜歡的書和作者是什麼？

“A Wrinkle in Time,” by Madeleine L’Engle. I also liked the Nancy Drew books — I guess I was always into mystery from the start. I also loved “Winnie-the-Pooh,” and used to play records with an English actor narrating them.

我喜歡瑪德琳·英格(Madeleine L’Engle)的《轉瞬之間》(A Wrinkle in Time)還有南希·德魯(Nancy Drew)的書——我知道我從小就喜歡神祕的東西。我也喜歡《小熊維尼》(Winnie-the-Pooh)，還聽過一個英國演員講小熊維尼故事的錄音。

If you had to name one book that made you who you are today, what would it be?

如果說出一本令你成爲現在的樣子的書，會是什麼書呢？

“The Lonely Doll,” by Dare Wright. It was my first view, my first idea, of New York as a glamorous place. I also really liked the doll’s pink-and-white-checked apron and the general air of existential blankness. When I tried to read it to my daughter, Coco, I thought, “This is so dark and terrifying.” But I’ve met many women who were influenced by that book. Another is T. J. Clark’s “Image of the People: Gustave Courbet and the 1848 Revolution,” which is all about the social context of artists like Courbet and Manet. It taught me how to read paintings in a new way. It’s out of print, and it shouldn’t be.

戴爾·懷特(Dare Wright)的《孤獨的娃娃》(The Lonely Doll)，這是我第一次讀到關於紐約的書，第一次覺得紐約是個迷人的地方。我喜歡那個娃娃粉白格的圍裙，還有那種關乎存在的空虛。後來我試着給女兒可可(Coco)讀這本書的時候，我覺得：“這太黑暗，太可怕了。”但我遇到很多女人，她們都受這本書影響。還有一本是T·J·克拉克(T.J. Clark)的《人民的肖像：古斯塔夫·庫爾貝與1848革命》(Image of the People: Gustave Courbet and the 1848 Revolution)，它講述庫爾貝和莫奈等藝術家的社會背景。它教會我如何以一種新的方式來理解繪畫。這本書現在已經絕版了，真不應該。

If you could require the president to read one book, what would it be?

如果你能要求總統讀一本書，會是什麼呢？

“Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral history of Punk,” by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain. The president probably hasn’t read a book about punk history.

《請宰了我：未經審查的朋克口述史》(Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk)，是萊格斯·麥克尼爾(Legs McNeil)和吉里安·麥凱恩(Gillian McCain)寫的。總統可能沒讀過關於朋克歷史的書。

You’re hosting a literary dinner party. Which three writers are invited?

如果你能主持一場文學晚餐會，會請哪三位作家出席呢？

Keith Richards, RZA and Amy Poehler. I think Amy would definitely dominate, because she’s so good at improv.

基思·理查茲(Keith Richards)、RZA和艾米·波勒(Amy Poehler)，我覺得艾米肯定很顯眼，因爲她很擅長即興發揮。

Disappointing, overrated, just not good: What book did you feel you were supposed to like, and didn’t? Do you remember the last book you put down without finishing?

令人失望、被高估，不怎麼樣：有沒有什麼書是你覺得本來可能會喜歡，但最後卻不喜歡的？你還記得上一本沒能讀完的書是什麼嗎？

There are a lot of books I’ve started but haven’t finished, too many to count. I bring books along on tours, and start them three or four times, then forget about them. It’s never the book’s fault.

有很多書我都沒能讀完，數不過來。我帶着書去巡演，拿起來讀兩三次，就把它們忘到一邊了，這不是這些書的錯。

What book hasn’t been written that you’d like to read?

有沒有什麼書是你想讀，但目前卻還沒寫出來的？

Is this a trick question?

這是個惡作劇的問題嗎？

What books do you find yourself returning to again and again?

有沒有什麼書是你會一再重讀的？

Didion’s “The White Album.” I love the period of time in California she writes about, since it’s one I don’t know all that well. She’s both an insider and a critical outsider. She’s bearing witness to an era. She writes about things I think about a lot, like Southern California’s suburban deadness. I love the title, too — it’s sort of genius.

迪迪安的《白色專輯》(The White Album)。我喜歡她寫的那個時代的加利福尼亞，因爲那段時間我不是特別瞭解。她既是內部人士，也能站在外部做出批評。她見證了一個時代。她寫的是那些我經常思考的東西，比如南加州城郊的死氣沉沉的狀態。我也喜歡這個書名——簡直是天才。

What books are you embarrassed not to have read yet?

有沒有什麼書你至今沒讀過，對此感到很尷尬？

“Infinite Jest.”

《無盡的玩笑》(Infinite Jest)。

What do you plan to read next?

接下來你要讀什麼書？

“Why Love Hurts,” by Eva Illouz. It’s a sociology book I thought I would check out. The back cover describes it as “the indispensable book on the social power and meaning of sex and love.” Who wouldn’t want to read that?

伊娃·伊魯茲(Eva Illouz)的《愛爲何令人痛苦》(Why Love Hurts)。這是一本社會學書籍，我會看看的。封底上說它是“一本必不可少的書，闡述性與愛的社會力量與意義”。誰不想讀這樣的書呢？